Idolise TCG 3.3.6

[caitlin]

i haven't really mentioned this in depth, but i have been quite diligently working on a plan to tackle idolise 4.0.

this is going to be an entire re-code of the site, and i'll be dropping a number of quality of life updates that will hopefully make the entire playing experience even more enjoyable. this new site will also remove many of the woes that we experience with code management, as i'm planning tying in some sort of cms that allows for us to get help with everything from content management (what pages say) to the creation of randomizers and tons of automated crap.

there are a few things that i'd like your opinions on, and i would appreciate a lot of honesty from you guys in terms of your experiences, your preferences and whether or not my big ideas are going to cause you pain and suffering.

i may add to this post at some point, but for now... let's begin!

#1: no more external sites

i haven't asked this in a very long time, but i'm curious about what your responses will be...

we've toyed with the idea of doing away with hosted sites and keeping all cards and trading contained within idolise. the biggest issue i've heard in the past is that it would remove the ability to really customize your page...

this whole time, i have continued thinking about it, especially with the slight decline of member activity. i like the idea of people being able to join and play with you guys without the setup woes of needing a trade post. it's difficult to get into trading card games, because managing your own trade post if you're unfamiliar with etcg and coding in general creates a huge gap.

if we had highly customizable "tradeposts" that are contained within the site, i wonder if that would make a difference.

if we did decide to go this route, i am imagining a whole new way of enjoying idolise. you would have the ability to very easily search for the cards that you need. we would be able to make trades right through the site and continue to receive notifications for them. you'd be able to see who has new cards added to their trade posts. we'd be able to very easily make suggestions for people you should trade with based on your trading pile and the cards that the other person is looking for. we'd add the ability to "trade post" colors, maybe backgrounds/headers... something along those lines... the possibilities are really endless and it's something we could very easily develop over time to get even better as you guys make suggestions around it.

i also think that one of the interesting benefits of having everything contained within the site is that we could have historical card data. we'd be able to see the journey that cards have made in their lifespan. we'd be able to say "[card] was rewarded to [user] in [game] on [date]. they traded it to [user] for [card] on [date]. its deck was mastered on [date]." maybe that it isn't interesting for everyone to be aware of, but it could be fun.

we would also have the ability to determine when a card in question is the first of its kind through a smarter database. that could also be interesting and alter how we play the game.

let me know your thoughts. if we did make a change like this, would you be likely to stop playing?

#2: you're not going to like this... trade pile wipe?

something else that i want to ask you guys about... how do you feel about a wipe?

this is a difficult question for us to ask, but we know that the site's card economy has reached a pretty dangerous level for some of our users.

there's absolutely nothing wrong with card wealth, of course, but the gap between new players and old players is so wide, that it would be really nice to have a fresh start and have the ability to really monitor this.

i want to know what you guys think about this, because we wouldn't want to do break any hearts. but a big part of what makes tcging fun when the game is brand new is trying to make your trade pile work. it's fun to need to trade your deck pulls, and it's fun to make a series of trades to get cards that you really need. i think those little challenges are what makes the game really fun.

just for the record, i really am talking about a trade pile wipe. i think custom content should be moved over, even if it's looked at as a legacy item. old mastery stats and other things could come over as well. i'm not suggesting that we erase all of the hard work our members have put in, but rather, bringing some challenge back to the game.

again. like my previous question... would this kill idolise for you? would you be less inclined to keep playing if we were to do something like this?

[Cami]

I think I'll be the odd one out (not 100% sure on that statistic though) by saying that while I wouldn't mind a trade pile wipe, not having full control over my own tradepost would sorta make it less appealing for me. While having some customization would help some, I'd have to see just how much can truly be customized before deciding if it'll really kill it for me.

Of course, I'm saying this as someone who's actually familiar with etcg and coding in general so maintaining my own post isn't nearly as daunting as it could potentially be.

[caitlin]

I think I'll be the odd one out (not 100% sure on that statistic though) by saying that while I wouldn't mind a trade pile wipe, not having full control over my own tradepost would sorta make it less appealing for me. While having some customization would help some, I'd have to see just how much can truly be customized before deciding if it'll really kill it for me.

i'm curious... what would be the biggest deal-breaker for you?

i think that we could potentially add the ability to create "piles" within your trade post. aka, the ability to organize your cards how you want.

i think that the trade posts would have a standard layout with the ability to change the color of certain attributes, upload a header, maybe a patterned background. space for a custom profile/bio (a rich text editor with the ability to add links, bold font, ect, kind of like the forum).

through the site, we could add sections that users can enable. we could even work some of the customization into things that users can unlock through tasks and other things...

the sky is the limit, and so, i am very interested in hearing the things you'd like to see! if you're not sure, that's also alright.

[Whitney]

1. I personally wouldn't mind switching over. I've been a part of site hosted tcg's before. For those the trade posts were kind of boring and you could only trade 1 card at a time. If it could be made to be exactly how we do it now through etcg with the option of trading however much you want at a time that would be great! I am interested to see how the trade pages would be able to be customized! The way you described sounds cool!

2. I also wouldn't mind a trade pile wipe. Even after trading in doubles, I still end up with doubles. There's always some cards that no one seems to want and just sit there for ages.

just for the record, i really am talking about a trade pile wipe.

Does this mean it's literally just the trading section or would it be collecting/keeping/future/hoards/pretty keeps, etc too? Would everyone start at level 1 again and we just have a tcg reboot?

TBH, sometimes I get overwhelmed at how much I am keeping. Especially because my interests change so often, I end up adding more and more.

Anyways, just know that whatever ends up happening, I will still be here! This is the longest I have been with a tcg! Even though I do have some moments where I just sort of disappear. That is something I have been working on though! I really like the atmosphere here!

[caitlin]

1. I personally wouldn't mind switching over. I've been a part of site hosted tcg's before. For those the trade posts were kind of boring and you could only trade 1 card at a time. If it could be made to be exactly how we do it now through etcg with the option of trading however much you want at a time that would be great! I am interested to see how the trade pages would be able to be customized! The way you described sounds cool!

2. I also wouldn't mind a trade pile wipe. Even after trading in doubles, I still end up with doubles. There's always some cards that no one seems to want and just sit there for ages.

just for the record, i really am talking about a trade pile wipe.

Does this mean it's literally just the trading section or would it be collecting/keeping/future/hoards/pretty keeps, etc too? Would everyone start at level 1 again and we just have a tcg reboot?

TBH, sometimes I get overwhelmed at how much I am keeping. Especially because my interests change so often, I end up adding more and more.

Anyways, just know that whatever ends up happening, I will still be here! This is the longest I have been with a tcg! Even though I do have some moments where I just sort of disappear. That is something I have been working on though! I really like the atmosphere here!

Wow, thanks for your feedback! This is getting the brain going...

For those the trade posts were kind of boring and you could only trade 1 card at a time.

This is great feedback!

As far as functionality goes, I also like the idea of still being able to trade many cards at once.

I think there are some really interesting ways that we can achieve this. When visiting another member's "trade post", perhaps we immediately present a list of cards that you need with a button to make a trade.

From there, maybe we can do some sort of "here is what you can offer them", and then you choose what you'd like to offer in terms of the trade.

Even after trading in doubles, I still end up with doubles. There's always some cards that no one seems to want and just sit there for ages.

If we did keep a history of cards, we would be able to track how long a card has been sitting in someone's trade pile. This would open the door for creating some feature that destroys old cards, or prompts you to hand them in for shredding. Or maybe we can use some stats of decks that are rarely mastered or decks that have a lot of cards in trade posts to encourage people to try and collect them for additional rewards. Things like that are possible.

Does this mean it's literally just the trading section or would it be collecting/keeping/future/hoards/pretty keeps, etc too? Would everyone start at level 1 again and we just have a tcg reboot?

I definitely owe a bit more clarity regarding this.

Collecting, keeping, future, hoards would be wiped as well, but any custom should be carried over. Including anything that is presently pending.

I am imagining that everyone essentially starts at level one again as well! Maybe we can give a small starting bonus based on past masteries or something... But basically level one!

[danni]

1. I don't mind the entire site switching over with a caveat.
I've gotten to a point where I can really only dedicate ~1 hour or less to TCG each week (fluctuates of course, but I just really can't spend too much time with TCG most weeks). Because of that, I've customized things to be very very efficient on my trade post (public mods that you all know + some private ones I use for myself including templatized forum posts, internal needed lists to help with forum choice cards, codes for choice cards exchangers, etc). If we're not able to have a lot of those big time-saving mods (main ones are auto card sorting and auto trade counting), then there's a chance I'd stop playing just due to time constraints.
I could care less about personalizing though --- as long as I show obnoxiously that I'm an nctzen, i don't care.
tldr because of site customization and having my own card database, my optimization game is insane and i need that still



2. you're touching my nct cards over my dead body.

just kidding, it'd honestly probably be good for us and the economy. i don't have a strong opinion here as long as we're still allowed to remaster decks (tbh I'd probably quit if we could only master unique decks).

[Star]

As a "newer" player considering just how long Idolise has been running. I have to admit the idea of a re-boot is a little daunting. Ultimately, I don't think it would bother me too much in the long run. I did make the decision to re-master all the Ateez decks recently because I'd hit 100% and had so much built up in my trading pile it made sense to do a round two already.

So while I'd be a little sad to see my progress since August get wiped.....re-doing everything is honestly pretty fun too. And I do feel like it might be a genuinely useful thing for older players who've got a lot built up.

That said. I don't have a lot of experience with Integrated TCGs, but as I've tried and failed to actually customize my layout almost AT ALL to severe frustration. I have to admit a simplified way of being able to tweak the layout would be a load off my back. Being able to just slot in colors and images could potentially make things a lot easier depending on the layout.

Plus you mentioned a lot of features that could potentially be really helpful. As it is with trading now half the time I just look to see if they have the card sorter available and then I just throw my trading section at it to see what they need and vice-versa. lol

Edit: You're stuck with me either way. Having a TCG for a Special Interest is Great. I'm not leaving anytime soon.

[yasu]

Ok, I tried to think for a while before writing anything in here. Because I'm really torn, to be completely honest, as both a long time player and an avid fan of new things.

I love Idolise. And I've loved it's predecessor, Onstage, a lot and I loved that Idolise felt a lot like a continuation of it. But what really upped the game in Idolise for me was the fact that we all met a bunch of different people I had never had the courage to talk to before - some of them members of a tcg I used to co-own with Cass and Aqua and still, never tried to start up a conversation with. I've made best friends with Idolise, I've tcged like a maniac when I needed to simply because life felt a little too heartbreaking for me, so I'll always be thankful to both of you for creating this tcg.

And with that said, what really - and truly - puts me off an automated trade post is the fact that it'd make things so much easier, easier to the point I wouldn't need to talk and DM different people to trade with them, like right in the beginning, where you guys would post up a new update and we'd rush to Discord to try and tell everyone what we're looking for, the crazy rush of asking for pulls and all that, it became a war zone and while it felt a little anxiety inducing back then (LOL), I'm sure we all miss it. I don't know a better word for a completely automated tcg/trade post than saying it feels a little too "robotic" for me. I wouldn't need to talk to anyone, the system will tell me stuff and I'll just grab the opportunity to trade.

Then it also comes down to the fact that I like my trade post - I enjoy being able to mess with it whenever I have the time, altho that's a little unfair, since I know how to tweak it. I enjoy the way it looks and, to be frank, Idolise is all I play right now, so I'd have no other reason to keep my domain lmaooo lowkey sad, but it's true...

Now the starting over. I am both upset and still wondering how it'd be? It's hard to part ways with the amount of work I've put into my collection. My current goal was to master every deck, and right now I'm extremely close to it, only missing the ones currently on my collecting page. But also, I realized I've absolutely lost track of what I wanted to do at first... Which was all my masteries and re-masteries for people I do stan. I don't use my gems for custom content simply because I stopped keeping track of what I've done already and what I gotta do still. I guess, regards that, it'd be nice? I love my hoards, though... So I agree with danni there, I'd never part ways with the recollecting aspect of the tcg. A whole lot of my total masteries count come from recollects, tbh.

What would be the pros of a start over, I'm wondering? Would decks still have been released? Like, all decks you've released so far? Because seeing all those released would sure get people's anxieties going - like "oh my god, my bias has 10 decks released and I've only managed to find 10 cards".

Do you think older players would come back, with a reboot, or even with the easier trade post? I miss having a lot of people to trade with and talk to, but I'm not sure a reboot or an automated trade post would help these issues, so I'm really on the fence. If Idolise still exists and allows me to hoard idols I love, I'll still play though. I like new things, but Idolise is on it's third year so I feel like it's only natural that some are card wealthy, while newer members are not.

[Lara]

1. I really like the idea of having our trade posts within the site! As someone who struggles with coding it would be really helpful, plus it would make trading so much easier. The reason I don't actively go out and send trades is coz its such an effort to have all those tabs open and switching back and forth. If we are able to incorporate the cool mods members have made over the years (like counting stamp cards, categorising big card piles into keeping/collecting/trading etc) then it would be even better. I would be sad to see my pretty customisations go but it is a small sacrifice for something more streamlined.

2. Yes and no. I would be willing to part with my trading and keeping piles but not my collecting. I feel like if my collecting history and currently collecting decks are gone it will kill it for me. My recollecting would be hard to let go of as well because it has all my Hara cards, and since her decks are 2015 retired and I cant really get them any other way, but that is more of a me thing lol.

[Mio]

My mind is a bit all over the place with these topics so bear with me! And I have to start with I agree with a lot of what yasu was saying. She honestly said a lot I didn't even think about before. And better than I could.
But both topics are a bit shocking to me not gonna lie!

Regarding the no external sites... You know I will join any and all tcgs and try them out at the end of the day. But speaking from my personal experience while I wouldn't hate playing Idolise as an automated tcg after having played pretty much all of them (TB, WS, Gekko, Tradyng etc.) I know my activity would probably decrease. I would still try my best for Idolise of course because I love this TCG and it's been one of my biggest hobbies over the years. I would never fully abandon it at this point. But I have to be honest and say I had lost interest in most of them after a while for several reasons.
Yes of course one of them is I would and did miss being able to have my own space I can customize however I want. Even if you'd set it up so we can customize our profile's look (which would be new for automated tcgs!) I know I wouldn't be fully satisfied with it. I'm very peculiar about my trade post!
I've always preferred the traditional TCGs over automated TCGs tho. Every automated tcg has/had it's own problems too.
A question I'd have if that becomes Idolise's future tho... will games stay weekly? And what stays in general?

And the trade pile wipe... Phew, welp. Everyone knows what level I am at and how many cards I have. I'm very split about this!
I wouldn't exactly be happy about losing everything from the past 3 years I can't lie. I may be alone in this but I've been very organized with my notes and lists and what I want to achieve on Idolise. It is part of the fun for me! Having goals. But not only that I'd be bummed about losing my currency, coupons, lightsticks and fanclubs. As someone very active it took me a long time to even get to this point because I am using every feature Idolise offers. Not to mention fanclubs haven't been around for very long and we worked very hard during the event to be able to get tokens to buy them (that was my whole reason for participating).
And while it wouldn't be a dealbreaker losing my custom content would break me at this point, haha. I am still even waiting on so much and it's probably the number one reason for me playing as much. I just love being able to have custom content!
I'd be down about these changes no matter what tho - because it is basically Idolise closing and reopining isn't it?

I also understand any TCG that has been open for so long will inevitably have problems with cards/decks no one wants and us not being able to get rid of doubles. I'm sure most of us from the higher levels have "clutter" problems. And a lot if not all of the initial craze is gone which is both a blessing and a curse.
I think restarts are always difficult.